Отправлено: 06.11.07 21:22. Заголовок: Whatttt!!!!

speak English

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 14:55. Заголовок: tell you the truth, ..

tell you the truth, i don't like karachay-balkars who say that they are pure and original caucasians, because they are not, they are turkic people.

i don't like that Qylych guy from youtube, he is here somewhere where is he?

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 14:57. Заголовок: karachay-balkars

tell you the truth, i don't like karachay-balkars who say they are pure and original caucasians, because they are not, they are turkic people in origin.

and i don't like that Qylych guy from youtube, he is here somewhere where is he?

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 15:32. Заголовок: Sawserok пишет: tel..

Sawserok пишет:

цитата:

tell you the truth, i don't like karachay-balkars who say they are pure and original caucasians, because they are not, they are turkic people in origin. and i don't like that Qylych guy from youtube, he is here somewhere where is he?

Well also go away then from here, if not love! What you here do make?

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 15:32. Заголовок: Похоже сюда проник к..

(tell you the truth, i don't like karachay-balkars who say they are pure and original caucasians, because they are not, they are turkic people in origin. )


Похоже сюда проник какой то вирус.... ......мочи его!!!

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 16:12. Заголовок: sergio , да не переж..

sergio , да не переживай ты, на подобные черви наш организм не реагирует


Sawserok Ищи его в другом месте....

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 17:47. Заголовок: Sawserok ты кто по-н..

Sawserok ты кто по-нации вообще? Опять штучки Болата?

Who are you by ethnicity?

Whats your problem, yes karachai-balkars are pure indigenous caucasian mountaineers and at the same we are alans (turkic speaking). "Turkic" doesn't mean the present nation "turks"(ottomans or uzbeks).

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 19:51. Заголовок: "karachai-balkar..

"karachai-balkars are pure indigenous caucasian mountaineers and at the same we are alans (turkic speaking)."

are you listening to yourself? karachay-balkars are not caucasians, who the hell said you are caucasians, just because you lived there doesn't make you caucasians, i don't say you are ottoman or uzbeck, you are karachay-balkar turks, the name Turk is general name, there are alot of turks, not every one of them are turk from turkey. but you are turks in origin your language is northeastern turk dialect.

and write in english, i don't know russian

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 19:56. Заголовок: :sm10: Шо!!? Опять ..

Шо!!? Опять выполз!!?

 Отправлено: 27.05.08 21:46. Заголовок: Sawserok You have ..

Sawserok You have any authentic sources or your conjectures?????

 Отправлено: 28.05.08 09:32. Заголовок: Sawserok, where are ..

Sawserok, where are you live, and where you was born?

 Отправлено: 28.05.08 11:40. Заголовок: Kypchaks are Karacha..

Kypchaks are Karachays direct ancestors. Why deny the evident? read your own Karachay historians - H. Laipanov says Kypchaks played the leading role in Karachay - Balkar ethnogenesis. U. Aliev in his "Karachay" book first published in 1927 and then reprinted in 1997 says "The base for the Karachay people was founded by a group of refugees from the Cirmean peninsula, who denied the Tatar Khan's yoke and sought refuge in the Caucasus mountains... The outnumbered Karachays fought with the local Abaza tribes that levied heavy duties, but failed and were forced to lead a nomad life in order to find better shelter for their freedom, and, indeed, after they left "Eltarkach" (this is a place that they think the cradle of Karachay people is at) Karachays appear in the Baksan Gorge... By that time the newly-appeared power of Kabardian feudals starts to enslave the local mountaineer peoples, including Ingushs, Chechens and others. The powerful prince Kazi of Kabarda, grandson of Prince Inal, found out that Karachays settled in the Baksan gorge, demanded that Karachays (as cattle-drivers) pay tribute with cattle...
With Karachay forcibly turned from a free people into tributaries of Kabardian feudal lords, the latter started terrible exploitation and in their despotism they went beyond all reasonable borders. Aside from traditional annual tribute of 300 sheep from the entire people, a basket of wheat and a large pitcher of butter from each household, any Kabardian prince passing by at any time could send his people to Karachay and take whatever he wanted as much as he pleased.
This is the original Russian text
"... Основу карачаевцев заложила группа беглецов с Крымского полуострова, не примирившихся с игом татарских ханов и искавших себе в горах Кавказа убежище для вольного существования...
.. Неравная борьба карачаевцев с окружающими их здесь абазинцами, которые обложили их непосильными данями-оброками, скоро принудила их к скитальческой жизни, к поискам другого более надежного убежища для своей вольности и, действительно, после "Эльтаркача" они появляются в ущельи Баксан... К этому времени зародившееся могущество кабардинских феодалов... начинает закабаливать постепенно все горские народы, включая ингушей, чеченцев... и др. Могущественный феодал Кабарды, князь Кази, внук Инала, разузнавший о существовании карачаевцев в ущельи Баксан, предъявил им требование дани скотом (как с скотоводов).
... Превращением карачаевцев из вольного народа, насильственно, в данников кабардинских феодалов, начинается жестокая эксплуатация их последними, которые в своем произволе доходили до того, что не стали уже считаться ни с какими пределами. Кроме взимаемых ими, установленных по обычаю, оброков (ежегодная уплата 300 баранов от всех, сапетка пшеницы и большой кувшин коровьего масла с каждого двора), любой проходимец, из кабардинских князей, в любое время мог послать своих представителей в Карачай и брать столько, сколько ему благорассудилось

 Отправлено: 28.05.08 11:42. Заголовок: You know that Alans ..

You know that Alans came to the Caucasus in the 1st century AD. They were annihilated by Mongols in the 13 century. What it means is that they remained but a handful after that fight, locked in the mountains. I believe by that time as a result of 12 centuries of living among the local Caucasoid peoples they have acquired the Caucasoid looks. They continued to grow after the Mongols, very slowly, mixing with neighbors, mostly Georgians - if you ever come to Ossetia, you can't help noticing their resemblance with Georgians in a lot of ways from religion to culture to traditions. That's how Ossetians kept their original Alan (non-Caucasian) language and became Caucasoid looking.

With Karachay Balkars it is a different story. There was a great battle between Tamerlane (Timur) and Toktamysh, the details of which you can discover here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokhtamysh-Timur_war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Terek_river

The battle took place at the Terek River, in the territory of modern Kabardey, on April, 14, 1395. Both of them were Turks, but Tokhtamysh was a western Turk (Kipchak) and Timur came from Central Asia. Timur wiped the Tokhtamysh army off the face of the Earth. The surviving regiments fled into the Caucasus mountains, to the part that now is Balkar. They settled in the local Alan villages, and assimilated them language-wise. Later on, in 1600's some of them left this area and moved to Karachay. I think they heft the place because their Circassian (Kabardey) rulers (pshi) often moved their subjects from one place to another because the pshi fought with each other all the time and the defeated ones had to escape. Kipchak ancestry is everywhere aminig them - their language is identical, they kept A LOT of Kipchak traditions and even Kipchak ornaments on their carpets (kiiz) which they are so proud of. This is why there are Caucasoids (ex-Alans) among the Karachay-Balkars, yet they speak a Turkic (non-Caucasian, Kipchak, really) language and there are so many Mongoloid-looking people among them.


P.S. Do you know that in 17-19 centuries they were called Mountainous Tatars by Russians?

E. Alexeeva, a Russian scientist that wrote her "Karachays and Balkars - an ancient people of the Caucasus", said exactly this - KB, as a people, came into existance in the 13-14 centuries AD, as a mixture of local peoples, Alans, Bulgars and Kipchaks. The two of the latter are Turkic nomads that came to the Caucasus in 7-8 centuries AD.

There's a Karachay scientist V.M. Batchayev, who says exactly the following: "Karachays and Balkars are descendants of Kypchaks and Bulgars". Nomad peoples, from the steppes of Crimea, Volga, Don. Pushed into the mointains by the Mongal advance. Take a look at linguistic dictionaries - Karachay-Balkar language is a part of the Western Kypchak language tree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kypchak_languages